Trascrizione: Chiarimenti

Questo è un estratto della trascrizione del modulo 1 del corso di Coaching Sistemico Integrativo. Il chiarimento è uno dei primi passi del nostro approccio, relativamente semplice e adatto ai principianti, ma comunque molto efficace.

ANNA: I felt some resistance in the last exercise. It was about the relationship between me, my mother, and her sister. When I was born, my mother was left in the hospital for the next two weeks, and I came home with my father and my aunt, my mother’s sister. For those first two weeks the aunt was my mother, she was mothering me instead of my mother. Since I can remember, since I was about five years old, I remember that my aunt was more important to me than my mother. My mother was very jealous of the relationship between me and her sister, so she was very controlling, she was even using some force, while my aunt was very supportive. During clarification, I resisted, I refused putting my mother in the place where she should be, because that place was already occupied by my aunt.

Ok, perfetto. Potremmo fare una dimostrazione con te, se sei d'accordo, Anna?

Clarification can be difficult to systematize and describe, because it depends so much of what your client tells you, and that could be just about anything. Let’s see what comes up with Anna and then we’ll learn more about what we can do with it. Anna, imagine to see your mother, where is she in your family map?

ANNA: She’s walking around me.

KOSJENKA: That sounds like there is some confusion about her. Sometimes when you are not quite sure where to start, or as a relatively easy introduction to clarification for a client, you could ask, „What would you like to say to this family member, that you never said or never had a chance to say?” Anna, is there something that you would spontaneously like to say to your mother that you would like your mother to know?

ANNA: Vorrei dirle di darmi un po' di tregua, di lasciarmi in pace, di lasciarmi stare.

KOSJENKA: This can also be a part of clarification. Clarification is not just about a formula, although we are working towards, let’s say, an end formula: You are my mother – I am your daughter. Especially if a relationship is difficult, let clients say whatever they want to say at first. You can think of clarification as a conversation in which everything that needs to be brought to the light is brought to the light, with the end goal of coming to an agreement of who is who in a healthy relationship. Anna, go ahead and say to your mother, “Leave me alone.”

Lasciami in pace.

Controllare come avrebbe risposto spontaneamente la madre.

ANNA: She’s a bit surprised now. She doesn’t say a thing but she’s showing me her fist, she’s shaking her fist.

KOSJENKA: Forse potrebbe spiegare a sua madre cosa la infastidiva, cosa la disturbava nel suo comportamento.

ANNA: Mi urlava contro, mi picchiava, leggeva i miei diari, controllava che tipo di libri leggevo per censurarli.

KOSJENKA: How would mother react if you’d explain this to her?

ANNA: She says that you have to keep your kids on a short leash. Otherwise they don’t have respect for anyone.

KOSJENKA: A few decades ago it was a common idea that you have to control your children quite harshly, otherwise you’d spoil them. People often don’t seem to see much between one extreme and the other. Anna, ask your mother, „Who taught you that?”

ANNA: Ha detto che era la scuola. Mia madre era un'insegnante.

KOSJENKA: Così ha dovuto disciplinare un grande gruppo di ragazzi indisciplinati.

ANNA: She was also teaching me, and I remember when she would take me out of the classroom and to the teacher’s room and then would beat me with a cable.

KOSJENKA: Leaving physical abuse aside for now, please say to your mother, „You are not my teacher, you are my mother. I need you to love me like a mother loves her child, not just discipline me like a teacher disciplines a student”. How does mother respond?

ANNA: She’s like frozen.

KOSJENKA: Imagine to step into mother’s place. If that is uncomfortable, you don’t have to feel too strongly what is going on in your mother, just enough to get some information. Imagine to be your mother and to be frozen when your child asks you to love her as a mother loves her daughter. If you are the mother, why are you frozen?

ANNA: (As the mother) I cannot even see that child. My first thought, my first concern is how I look like when I’m frozen this way.

KOSJENKA: Sounds like the mother is very concerned with what people might say. That’s quite often the case when a parent is a teacher; what would people say about their children. Anna, if you are your mother, who taught you to feel all that fear of what people would say?

ANNA: Capisco mamma.

KOSJENKA: Mother’s mother?

ANNA: Sì.

KOSJENKA: That’s very normal, and it’s also very common in clarification that sometimes you need to clarify with another family member before you can continue working with the first one. Where stands grandmother in relation to mother, Anna?

ANNA: Proprio davanti a me.

KOSJENKA: Cosa vorrebbe dire spontaneamente sua madre, sua nonna?

ANNA: I’m sick and I cannot work, I’m not able to work, I’m sick.

KOSJENKA: Può darci un ulteriore contesto? La madre era malata e la nonna l'ha costretta a lavorare quando era piccola?

ANNA: I don’t know about my mother’s childhood, but when she was a young woman she got pregnant and the child died, and in some complications she got some heart muscle inflammation and she has had heart problems since then. As they were living in a village, the parents expected their children to help them with work. My mother couldn’t really help much because of the heart problem. When I was young, since I was 12, 14 years old, I was also sent there to help my grandparents.

KOSJENKA: What would grandmother say to mother’s words, “I’m sick, don’t make me work so much”?

ANNA: Lei lo approva, lo accetta, ma d'altra parte dice anche che dobbiamo pregare molto, dobbiamo pregare molto.

Com'è per la madre?

ANNA: Mother feels it was too easy, she doesn’t really feel too much about that. She feels happy about it but not very happy.

KOSJENKA: I would imagine that the key problem is somewhere further in her childhood but we don’t have to know all the details right now. Anna, as mother, what would you really like from your mother? How does the mother want grandmother to love her?

ANNA (nel ruolo di sua madre): Voglio dire che non mi stava cambiando i pannolini.

KOSJENKA: Anche questo è un chiarimento. Come risponderebbe la nonna?

ANNA: Grandma ran away. She’s running away from this.

KOSJENKA: Please say to grandma, “Please don’t run away, I need you.” What says grandma?

ANNA: Grandmother has stopped running, but she’s holding her head in her hand and she’s crying terribly.

KOSJENKA: Ask grandmother, “Why are you crying?”

ANNA: La nonna dice che è stato un grande peccato.

Qual è stata la grande vergogna?

ANNA: Per avere un figlio.

Era una gravidanza non pianificata o qualcosa del genere?

ANNA: Grandma is crying and she says that she’s not going to say it to anyone.

KOSJENKA: Go back into yourself, be Anna again. Say to grandmother, “I’m sorry you suffered that shame. People can be cruel sometimes.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: La nonna dice che non sai nulla e non puoi sapere nulla.

KOSJENKA: Say to grandma, “Ok, I don’t know anything about it and I’m sorry that people were cruel to you.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Grandma has changed, she’s curled inside herself now and she is shaped like an embryo.

Forse dobbiamo parlare con sua madre. Cosa direbbe la bisnonna di tutta questa situazione?

ANNA: Great-grandmother is angry, she’s furious right now.

KOSJENKA: Chiedete alla bisnonna cosa la fa arrabbiare tanto.

ANNA: It’s about the shame her daughter is going to bring to her.

KOSJENKA: Say to great-grandmother, „People are cruel sometimes. Cruelty is the true shame.” But by now the society has changed. What would great-grandmother say about what is possible now, what wasn’t possible then?

ANNA: La bisnonna si è lasciata andare, può lasciar andare questa emozione ora, e posso vedere molta luce intorno a lei, e dice di credermi.

Bellissimo. Chiedete alla vostra bisnonna di riconoscere quanto dolore sta portando sua figlia. Forse la nonna si è innamorata di qualcuno, si è sentita piena d'amore e forse sperava che se si sentiva così bene, nulla potesse andare storto.

ANNA: No, I don’t think so because it was the time of the war, it was 1941. It’s possible that my grandma was raped but I don’t know that.

KOSJENKA: Please ask great-grandmother not to hurt her daughter on top of the hurt she’s already suffered.

La bisnonna sta piangendo.

KOSJENKA: Chiedete alla bisnonna di sostenere la figlia, di aiutarla, di amarla.

ANNA: Lo capisce e dice che ci sta provando, che vuole farlo.

KOSJENKA: Is grandmother willing to accept her mother’s help?

ANNA: The grandmother is now opening from that embryo position. She doesn’t say much now but she is ready to accept.

KOSJENKA: Great. Watch grandmother accepting her mother’s support and love. Maybe she could relax, maybe she could feel better about herself, maybe she could feel better about her daughter, maybe she could learn about how to support a child even against what the world might say.

ANNA: Sembra giovane, ha circa 20 anni ed è bellissima. Si sente così bene.

Ottimo. Dille che un giorno avrà una figlia bellissima e che sua figlia avrà bisogno del suo amore. Cosa direbbe la nonna?

ANNA: Si è toccata la pancia e mi ha sorriso.

KOSJENKA: Tell her that all children are chaotic sometimes, they need to make mistakes, they need to explore. Tell her that it’s important to be patient and kind, for the future of her daughter and for the future of the next generations, too.

ANNA: She is accepting it, she’s happy about it, she’s touching her belly, patting her belly, she’s wearing a polka dot dress and standing somewhere in the fields.

KOSJENKA: Ottimo. Immaginate di mostrarle vostra madre in futuro, sua figlia, e di chiederle di sostenerla, di amarla come una madre ama sua figlia. Di essere gentile con lei, di essere paziente, di essere amorevole. Che cosa succede?

ANNA: Grandmother told her now that she’s a mature woman, and my mother stopped paying attention to her clothes, to how they look like, she’s looking at my grandma and I can see some sort of connection between them, like they see each other.

KOSJENKA: Ripeti a tua nonna: "Ti prego, ama tua figlia come una madre ama suo figlio".

ANNA: Dice così, dice che la ama senza problemi.

Com'è la situazione per la madre ora?

ANNA: She looks like she’s lost.

Forse ha bisogno di un po' di tempo per abituarsi?

ANNA: Probabilmente.

Datele un po' di tempo per abituarsi. A proposito, c'è qualcuno che russa laggiù? (Nota: si trattava di una formazione online.)

Mi dispiace. Ho due bulldog inglesi.

KOSJENKA: I didn’t know they could snore.

ANNA: Dormo con loro ogni notte.

KOSJENKA: Lucky you, you don’t have such sensitive ears as I.

ANNA: Mi dico che quelle sono onde alfa e che devo solo sintonizzarmi su di esse.

KOSJENKA: That’s a good way to comfort yourself.
Allora, come si sente tua madre adesso?

ANNA: She’s straightened up, her head is high and she looks happy, content.

KOSJENKA: Great. Now imagine grandmother tells her, „Please love Anna, your daughter.”

ANNA: Mother responds, „Well, when she earns it.”

Cosa direbbe la nonna a questo proposito?

ANNA: Grandmother says, “Just love her”.

Com'è per la madre?

ANNA: Mom can see me, but she doesn’t really do much, doesn’t say anything, doesn’t make any gestures, but she’s looking at me closely.

KOSJENKA: Anna, immagina di nuovo di essere tua madre. Immagina due generazioni di madri amorevoli e solidali alle tue spalle.

ANNA: L'ho sentito, l'ho sentito davvero, ho persino raddrizzato la schiena. È una bella sensazione, è come se qualcosa mi sostenesse.

Ottimo. Ora, come madre, guardi sua figlia, guardi Anna da vicino. Che cosa vede?

ANNA (as mother): I see a five year old. She’s very fragile.

Cosa prova per sua figlia?

ANNA: Penso che abbia bisogno di me e che potrei cercare di sostenerla.

KOSJENKA: Tornando ad Anna, per favore, dica a sua madre come vorresti che ti amasse e ti sostenesse.

ANNA (nel ruolo di se stessa): Vorrei che mi lasciasse un po' di spazio e che mi lasciasse creare.

Come reagirebbe sua madre se le dicesse questo?

ANNA: In un certo senso lo vuole, ma d'altra parte prova una sorta di timore che io stessa possa mettermi nei guai, che possa avere dei problemi a causa di questo.

Cosa le direbbe a questo proposito?

ANNA: Che questa è la mia vita e che ci sarebbero solo i miei guai e i miei problemi.

KOSJENKA: Magari ditele anche che a volte i bambini hanno bisogno di problemi per imparare da essi. A volte sperimentare i problemi può aiutare i bambini a imparare a gestirli o a evitarli. È meglio imparare presto da piccoli problemi, che più tardi da quelli peggiori. Come la prenderebbe la mamma?

ANNA: She feels good. Earlier she was not really clear, like there was not best resolution in that image of her, but now it feels like she’s got more pixels, the resolution is better.

Fantastico. Cosa sente, cosa vorrebbe dirle sua madre adesso?

ANNA: “Ok then, go.”

KOSJENKA: Immaginate che la piccola Anna possa avere più spazio, più libertà. Come sarebbe?

ANNA: It feels great, I’m jumping into a huge aquarium with coral reef, which was always my dream.

KOSJENKA: While the child is playing in the coral reef I’ll comment about a few things. Sometimes you can simply ask the client what would they like to say, or what would they like to comment about what is going on. You don’t have to guide the client all the time. Sometimes a client can feel what would be the most appropriate clarification better than you. It’s like a dance with the client, you listen to their responses, rather than trying to fit the process into some sort of frame as quickly as possible. Whatever needs to be resolved before the next step could be done, resolve it. We never push anything, we never force anything, otherwise we’ll just make the work longer and more difficult. Whatever we skip, we will have to go back to it some time or another. Anna, do you think you are ready now to say to your mother, “You are my mother”?

ANNA: Sì.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, „You are my mother; I am your daughter. I wish we weren’t separated at a time when we needed to connect the most.” How does mother respond?

ANNA: She doesn’t say much, she doesn’t do much, but her face is softer. She is looking at me with care and love.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, “I wish we could have had a better connection, and I know you wanted that too.” What says mother?

ANNA: She confirms it and it looks like she would like to hug me but she’s a little bit afraid.

Vorresti che ti abbracciasse?

ANNA: Sì.

KOSJENKA: Say to mother, „Let’s try, let’s see what happens.”

ANNA: We’re taking baby steps now towards each other. Now we’re hugging.

Ottimo. Potete essere lenti e attenti quanto volete. Basta dare tempo al tempo e notare come ci si sente.

ANNA: … We stopped hugging and right now we are leaning on each other’s backs. Our backs are touching.

Ottimo. Chiedete a vostra madre di mettersi dietro la vostra spalla sinistra e di mettere il suo braccio sulla vostra spalla.

ANNA: That’s what happened, my mother did that and there was no resistance and I feel like everything is in its place, like there is an order to it.

ANNA: Great. This sounds like a good time to stop for now. Some clarification with the aunt would be a good idea next, maybe between mother and aunt, just to clarify who is mother and who is aunt, maybe mother would be angry at the aunt for taking her place. Who knows what else has happened with mother, perhaps there are some traumas to resolve, but that’s a topic for another time. This is a good demonstration, I think, to show how complex a clarification can be. This is perfectly normal, most sessions won’t be straightforward and easy. Thank you, Anna.

ANNA: Grazie.

Il nostro prossimo corso di coaching online inizia il 26 aprile 2025, alle ore 9:00 CET. Contattateci se volete partecipare!

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