Abschrift: Klärung

Dies ist ein Auszug aus einem Transkript von Modul 1 der Integrativen Systemischen Coaching-Ausbildung. Klärung ist einer der ersten Schritte unseres Ansatzes, relativ einfach und anfängerfreundlich, aber dennoch sehr effektiv.

ANNA: I felt some resistance in the last exercise. It was about the relationship between me, my mother, and her sister. When I was born, my mother was left in the hospital for the next two weeks, and I came home with my father and my aunt, my mother’s sister. For those first two weeks the aunt was my mother, she was mothering me instead of my mother. Since I can remember, since I was about five years old, I remember that my aunt was more important to me than my mother. My mother was very jealous of the relationship between me and her sister, so she was very controlling, she was even using some force, while my aunt was very supportive. During clarification, I resisted, I refused putting my mother in the place where she should be, because that place was already occupied by my aunt.

KOSJENKA: Ok, großartig. Vielleicht könnten wir eine Demo mit Ihnen machen, wenn Sie einverstanden sind, Anna?

Clarification can be difficult to systematize and describe, because it depends so much of what your client tells you, and that could be just about anything. Let’s see what comes up with Anna and then we’ll learn more about what we can do with it. Anna, imagine to see your mother, where is she in your family map?

ANNA: She’s walking around me.

KOSJENKA: That sounds like there is some confusion about her. Sometimes when you are not quite sure where to start, or as a relatively easy introduction to clarification for a client, you could ask, „What would you like to say to this family member, that you never said or never had a chance to say?” Anna, is there something that you would spontaneously like to say to your mother that you would like your mother to know?

ANNA: Ich würde ihr gerne sagen, dass sie mich in Ruhe lassen soll, mich in Ruhe lassen soll, mich in Ruhe lassen soll.

KOSJENKA: This can also be a part of clarification. Clarification is not just about a formula, although we are working towards, let’s say, an end formula: You are my mother – I am your daughter. Especially if a relationship is difficult, let clients say whatever they want to say at first. You can think of clarification as a conversation in which everything that needs to be brought to the light is brought to the light, with the end goal of coming to an agreement of who is who in a healthy relationship. Anna, go ahead and say to your mother, “Leave me alone.”

ANNA: Lassen Sie mich in Ruhe.

KOSJENKA: Prüfen Sie, wie die Mutter spontan reagieren würde.

ANNA: She’s a bit surprised now. She doesn’t say a thing but she’s showing me her fist, she’s shaking her fist.

KOSJENKA: Vielleicht könnten Sie Ihrer Mutter erklären, was Sie gestört hat, was Sie an ihrem Verhalten gestört hat.

ANNA: Sie schrie mich an, sie schlug mich, sie las meine Tagebücher, sie überprüfte, welche Art von Büchern ich las, um sie zu zensieren.

KOSJENKA: How would mother react if you’d explain this to her?

ANNA: She says that you have to keep your kids on a short leash. Otherwise they don’t have respect for anyone.

KOSJENKA: A few decades ago it was a common idea that you have to control your children quite harshly, otherwise you’d spoil them. People often don’t seem to see much between one extreme and the other. Anna, ask your mother, „Who taught you that?”

ANNA: Sie sagte, es war die Schule. Meine Mutter war eine Lehrerin.

KOSJENKA: Sie musste also eine große Gruppe von widerspenstigen Kindern disziplinieren.

ANNA: She was also teaching me, and I remember when she would take me out of the classroom and to the teacher’s room and then would beat me with a cable.

KOSJENKA: Leaving physical abuse aside for now, please say to your mother, „You are not my teacher, you are my mother. I need you to love me like a mother loves her child, not just discipline me like a teacher disciplines a student”. How does mother respond?

ANNA: She’s like frozen.

KOSJENKA: Imagine to step into mother’s place. If that is uncomfortable, you don’t have to feel too strongly what is going on in your mother, just enough to get some information. Imagine to be your mother and to be frozen when your child asks you to love her as a mother loves her daughter. If you are the mother, why are you frozen?

ANNA: (As the mother) I cannot even see that child. My first thought, my first concern is how I look like when I’m frozen this way.

KOSJENKA: Sounds like the mother is very concerned with what people might say. That’s quite often the case when a parent is a teacher; what would people say about their children. Anna, if you are your mother, who taught you to feel all that fear of what people would say?

ANNA: Ich sehe Mutter.

KOSJENKA: Mother’s mother?

ANNA: Ja.

KOSJENKA: That’s very normal, and it’s also very common in clarification that sometimes you need to clarify with another family member before you can continue working with the first one. Where stands grandmother in relation to mother, Anna?

ANNA: Direkt vor mir.

KOSJENKA: Was würde Mutter spontan zu ihrer Mutter, Ihrer Großmutter, sagen wollen?

ANNA: I’m sick and I cannot work, I’m not able to work, I’m sick.

KOSJENKA: Können Sie uns etwas mehr Kontext geben? Die Mutter war krank und die Großmutter zwang sie zu arbeiten, als sie noch klein war?

ANNA: I don’t know about my mother’s childhood, but when she was a young woman she got pregnant and the child died, and in some complications she got some heart muscle inflammation and she has had heart problems since then. As they were living in a village, the parents expected their children to help them with work. My mother couldn’t really help much because of the heart problem. When I was young, since I was 12, 14 years old, I was also sent there to help my grandparents.

KOSJENKA: What would grandmother say to mother’s words, “I’m sick, don’t make me work so much”?

ANNA: Sie befürwortet es, sie akzeptiert es, aber andererseits sagt sie auch, dass wir viel beten müssen, wir müssen viel beten.

KOSJENKA: Wie ist das für Mutter?

ANNA: Mother feels it was too easy, she doesn’t really feel too much about that. She feels happy about it but not very happy.

KOSJENKA: I would imagine that the key problem is somewhere further in her childhood but we don’t have to know all the details right now. Anna, as mother, what would you really like from your mother? How does the mother want grandmother to love her?

ANNA (in der Rolle ihrer Mutter): Ich möchte sagen, dass sie mir nicht die Windeln gewechselt hat.

KOSJENKA: Auch das ist eine Klarstellung. Wie würde die Großmutter darauf reagieren?

ANNA: Grandma ran away. She’s running away from this.

KOSJENKA: Please say to grandma, “Please don’t run away, I need you.” What says grandma?

ANNA: Grandmother has stopped running, but she’s holding her head in her hand and she’s crying terribly.

KOSJENKA: Ask grandmother, “Why are you crying?”

ANNA: Großmutter sagt, dass es eine große Schande war.

KOSJENKA: Was war die große Schande?

ANNA: Um ein Kind zu bekommen.

KOSJENKA: War es eine ungeplante Schwangerschaft oder so etwas?

ANNA: Grandma is crying and she says that she’s not going to say it to anyone.

KOSJENKA: Go back into yourself, be Anna again. Say to grandmother, “I’m sorry you suffered that shame. People can be cruel sometimes.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Großmutter sagt, Sie wissen nichts und können nichts darüber wissen.

KOSJENKA: Say to grandma, “Ok, I don’t know anything about it and I’m sorry that people were cruel to you.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Grandma has changed, she’s curled inside herself now and she is shaped like an embryo.

KOSJENKA: Vielleicht müssen wir mit ihrer Mutter sprechen. Was würde die Urgroßmutter zu dieser ganzen Situation sagen?

ANNA: Great-grandmother is angry, she’s furious right now.

KOSJENKA: Fragen Sie die Urgroßmutter, was sie so wütend macht.

ANNA: It’s about the shame her daughter is going to bring to her.

KOSJENKA: Say to great-grandmother, „People are cruel sometimes. Cruelty is the true shame.” But by now the society has changed. What would great-grandmother say about what is possible now, what wasn’t possible then?

ANNA: Urgroßmutter würde es loslassen, sie kann diese Emotionen jetzt loslassen, und ich kann viel Licht um sie herum sehen, und sie sagt, sie glaubt mir.

KOSJENKA: Schön. Bitten Sie Ihre Urgroßmutter zu erkennen, wie viel Schmerz ihre Tochter in sich trägt. Vielleicht hat sich die Großmutter in jemanden verliebt, fühlte sich voller Liebe und hat vielleicht gehofft, dass, wenn sie sich so gut fühlt, nichts schief gehen kann.

ANNA: No, I don’t think so because it was the time of the war, it was 1941. It’s possible that my grandma was raped but I don’t know that.

KOSJENKA: Please ask great-grandmother not to hurt her daughter on top of the hurt she’s already suffered.

ANNA: Urgroßmutter weint.

KOSJENKA: Bitten Sie die Urgroßmutter, ihre Tochter zu unterstützen, ihr zu helfen und sie zu lieben.

ANNA: Sie versteht es und sie sagt, dass sie es versucht, sie will es.

KOSJENKA: Is grandmother willing to accept her mother’s help?

ANNA: The grandmother is now opening from that embryo position. She doesn’t say much now but she is ready to accept.

KOSJENKA: Great. Watch grandmother accepting her mother’s support and love. Maybe she could relax, maybe she could feel better about herself, maybe she could feel better about her daughter, maybe she could learn about how to support a child even against what the world might say.

ANNA: Sie sieht jung aus, sie ist so um die 20 Jahre alt und sie ist wunderschön. Sie fühlt sich so richtig an.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Sagen Sie ihr, dass sie eines Tages eine wunderschöne Tochter haben wird und dass ihre Tochter sie brauchen wird, um sie zu lieben. Was würde die Großmutter sagen?

ANNA: Sie berührte ihren Bauch und lächelte mich an.

KOSJENKA: Tell her that all children are chaotic sometimes, they need to make mistakes, they need to explore. Tell her that it’s important to be patient and kind, for the future of her daughter and for the future of the next generations, too.

ANNA: She is accepting it, she’s happy about it, she’s touching her belly, patting her belly, she’s wearing a polka dot dress and standing somewhere in the fields.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Stellen Sie sich vor, Sie zeigen ihr in der Zukunft Ihre Mutter, ihr Kind, und bitten sie, sie zu unterstützen, sie zu lieben, wie eine Mutter ihre Tochter liebt. Zu ihr freundlich zu sein, geduldig zu sein, liebevoll zu sein. Und was passiert?

ANNA: Grandmother told her now that she’s a mature woman, and my mother stopped paying attention to her clothes, to how they look like, she’s looking at my grandma and I can see some sort of connection between them, like they see each other.

KOSJENKA: Sagen Sie Ihrer Großmutter noch einmal: Bitte lieben Sie Ihre Tochter, wie eine Mutter ihr Kind liebt.

ANNA: Sie sagt es, sie sagt, dass sie sie ohne Probleme liebt.

KOSJENKA: Wie ist das jetzt für Mutter?

ANNA: She looks like she’s lost.

KOSJENKA: Vielleicht braucht sie etwas Zeit, um sich daran zu gewöhnen?

ANNA: Wahrscheinlich.

KOSJENKA: Geben Sie ihr etwas Zeit, sich daran zu gewöhnen. Übrigens, schnarcht da drüben auch jemand? (Hinweis: Es war eine Online-Schulung.)

ANNA: Entschuldigung. Ich habe zwei englische Bulldoggen.

KOSJENKA: I didn’t know they could snore.

ANNA: Ich schlafe jede Nacht mit ihnen.

KOSJENKA: Lucky you, you don’t have such sensitive ears as I.

ANNA: Ich sage mir, dass das Alphawellen sind und ich mich einfach darauf einstellen muss.

KOSJENKA: That’s a good way to comfort yourself.
Und wie geht es Ihrer Mutter jetzt?

ANNA: She’s straightened up, her head is high and she looks happy, content.

KOSJENKA: Great. Now imagine grandmother tells her, „Please love Anna, your daughter.”

ANNA: Mother responds, „Well, when she earns it.”

KOSJENKA: Was würde Großmutter jetzt dazu sagen?

ANNA: Grandmother says, “Just love her”.

KOSJENKA: Wie ist das für Mutter?

ANNA: Mom can see me, but she doesn’t really do much, doesn’t say anything, doesn’t make any gestures, but she’s looking at me closely.

KOSJENKA: Anna, stellen Sie sich noch einmal vor, Ihre Mutter zu sein. Stellen Sie sich vor, dass zwei Generationen liebevoller und unterstützender Mütter hinter Ihnen stehen.

ANNA: Ich habe es gespürt, ich habe es wirklich gespürt, ich habe sogar meinen Rücken aufgerichtet. Es fühlt sich gut an, es fühlt sich an, als würde mich etwas stützen.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Nun, als Mutter, sehen Sie sich Ihre Tochter an, sehen Sie sich Anna genau an. Was sehen Sie?

ANNA (as mother): I see a five year old. She’s very fragile.

KOSJENKA: Was empfinden Sie für Ihre Tochter?

ANNA: Ich glaube, sie braucht mich und ich könnte versuchen, sie zu unterstützen.

KOSJENKA: Zurück zu Anna, sagen Sie bitte zu Ihrer Mutter wie möchten Sie, dass sie Sie liebt und unterstützt.

ANNA (als sie selbst): Ich möchte, dass sie mir etwas Freiraum gibt und mich erschaffen lässt.

KOSJENKA: Wie würde Ihre Mutter reagieren, wenn Sie ihr das sagen würden?

ANNA: Sie will es irgendwie, aber auf der anderen Seite hat sie eine Art Angst, dass ich selbst in Schwierigkeiten geraten könnte, dass ich deswegen Probleme bekommen könnte.

KOSJENKA: Was würden Sie ihr dazu sagen?

ANNA: Dass dies mein Leben ist und es nur meine Schwierigkeiten und Probleme sind.

KOSJENKA: Vielleicht sagen Sie ihr auch, dass Kinder manchmal Schwierigkeiten brauchen, um daraus zu lernen. Manchmal können Kinder aus Schwierigkeiten lernen, mit Schwierigkeiten umzugehen oder sie zu vermeiden. Es ist besser, früh aus kleinen Schwierigkeiten zu lernen, als später aus größeren. Was würde Mutter dazu sagen?

ANNA: She feels good. Earlier she was not really clear, like there was not best resolution in that image of her, but now it feels like she’s got more pixels, the resolution is better.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Was meinen Sie, was würde Ihre Mutter Ihnen jetzt gerne sagen?

ANNA: “Ok then, go.”

KOSJENKA: Stellen Sie sich vor, die kleine Anna könnte mehr Platz und mehr Freiheit haben. Wie wäre das?

ANNA: It feels great, I’m jumping into a huge aquarium with coral reef, which was always my dream.

KOSJENKA: While the child is playing in the coral reef I’ll comment about a few things. Sometimes you can simply ask the client what would they like to say, or what would they like to comment about what is going on. You don’t have to guide the client all the time. Sometimes a client can feel what would be the most appropriate clarification better than you. It’s like a dance with the client, you listen to their responses, rather than trying to fit the process into some sort of frame as quickly as possible. Whatever needs to be resolved before the next step could be done, resolve it. We never push anything, we never force anything, otherwise we’ll just make the work longer and more difficult. Whatever we skip, we will have to go back to it some time or another. Anna, do you think you are ready now to say to your mother, “You are my mother”?

ANNA: Ja.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, „You are my mother; I am your daughter. I wish we weren’t separated at a time when we needed to connect the most.” How does mother respond?

ANNA: She doesn’t say much, she doesn’t do much, but her face is softer. She is looking at me with care and love.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, “I wish we could have had a better connection, and I know you wanted that too.” What says mother?

ANNA: She confirms it and it looks like she would like to hug me but she’s a little bit afraid.

KOSJENKA: Möchten Sie, dass sie Sie umarmt?

ANNA: Ja.

KOSJENKA: Say to mother, „Let’s try, let’s see what happens.”

ANNA: We’re taking baby steps now towards each other. Now we’re hugging.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Sie können so langsam und vorsichtig sein, wie Sie wollen. Lassen Sie sich einfach Zeit und merken Sie, wie es sich anfühlt.

ANNA: … We stopped hugging and right now we are leaning on each other’s backs. Our backs are touching.

KOSJENKA: Großartig. Bitten Sie Ihre Mutter, sich hinter Ihre linke Schulter zu stellen und ihren Arm auf Ihre Schulter zu legen.

ANNA: That’s what happened, my mother did that and there was no resistance and I feel like everything is in its place, like there is an order to it.

ANNA: Great. This sounds like a good time to stop for now. Some clarification with the aunt would be a good idea next, maybe between mother and aunt, just to clarify who is mother and who is aunt, maybe mother would be angry at the aunt for taking her place. Who knows what else has happened with mother, perhaps there are some traumas to resolve, but that’s a topic for another time. This is a good demonstration, I think, to show how complex a clarification can be. This is perfectly normal, most sessions won’t be straightforward and easy. Thank you, Anna.

ANNA: Vielen Dank.

Unser nächstes Online-Coaching-Training beginnt am 26. April 2025, um 9 Uhr MEZ. Kontaktieren Sie uns, wenn Sie teilnehmen möchten!

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