文字稿：澄清

本文摘自整合系统教练培训模块 1 的记录。澄清是我们方法的第一步，相对简单，适合初学者，但仍然相当有效。

ANNA: I felt some resistance in the last exercise. It was about the relationship between me, my mother, and her sister. When I was born, my mother was left in the hospital for the next two weeks, and I came home with my father and my aunt, my mother’s sister. For those first two weeks the aunt was my mother, she was mothering me instead of my mother. Since I can remember, since I was about five years old, I remember that my aunt was more important to me than my mother. My mother was very jealous of the relationship between me and her sister, so she was very controlling, she was even using some force, while my aunt was very supportive. During clarification, I resisted, I refused putting my mother in the place where she should be, because that place was already occupied by my aunt.

好的，太好了。如果你同意的话，也许我们可以和你一起做个演示，安娜？

Clarification can be difficult to systematize and describe, because it depends so much of what your client tells you, and that could be just about anything. Let’s see what comes up with Anna and then we’ll learn more about what we can do with it. Anna, imagine to see your mother, where is she in your family map?

ANNA: She’s walking around me.

KOSJENKA: That sounds like there is some confusion about her. Sometimes when you are not quite sure where to start, or as a relatively easy introduction to clarification for a client, you could ask, „What would you like to say to this family member, that you never said or never had a chance to say?” Anna, is there something that you would spontaneously like to say to your mother that you would like your mother to know?

我想对她说，别管我，让我自己待着吧。

KOSJENKA: This can also be a part of clarification. Clarification is not just about a formula, although we are working towards, let’s say, an end formula: You are my mother – I am your daughter. Especially if a relationship is difficult, let clients say whatever they want to say at first. You can think of clarification as a conversation in which everything that needs to be brought to the light is brought to the light, with the end goal of coming to an agreement of who is who in a healthy relationship. Anna, go ahead and say to your mother, “Leave me alone.”

别烦我

科斯坚卡：看看母亲会如何自发回应。

ANNA: She’s a bit surprised now. She doesn’t say a thing but she’s showing me her fist, she’s shaking her fist.

科斯坚卡：也许你可以向你母亲解释一下，她的行为有哪些地方让你感到困扰，哪些地方让你感到不安。

安纳：她会对我大喊大叫，会打我，会看我的日记，会检查我读的是哪类书籍，对它们进行审查。

KOSJENKA: How would mother react if you’d explain this to her?

ANNA: She says that you have to keep your kids on a short leash. Otherwise they don’t have respect for anyone.

KOSJENKA: A few decades ago it was a common idea that you have to control your children quite harshly, otherwise you’d spoil them. People often don’t seem to see much between one extreme and the other. Anna, ask your mother, „Who taught you that?”

她说是学校我妈妈是个老师

所以她必须管教一大群不听话的孩子。

ANNA: She was also teaching me, and I remember when she would take me out of the classroom and to the teacher’s room and then would beat me with a cable.

KOSJENKA: Leaving physical abuse aside for now, please say to your mother, „You are not my teacher, you are my mother. I need you to love me like a mother loves her child, not just discipline me like a teacher disciplines a student”. How does mother respond?

ANNA: She’s like frozen.

KOSJENKA: Imagine to step into mother’s place. If that is uncomfortable, you don’t have to feel too strongly what is going on in your mother, just enough to get some information. Imagine to be your mother and to be frozen when your child asks you to love her as a mother loves her daughter. If you are the mother, why are you frozen?

ANNA: (As the mother) I cannot even see that child. My first thought, my first concern is how I look like when I’m frozen this way.

KOSJENKA: Sounds like the mother is very concerned with what people might say. That’s quite often the case when a parent is a teacher; what would people say about their children. Anna, if you are your mother, who taught you to feel all that fear of what people would say?

我看到妈妈了

KOSJENKA: Mother’s mother?

是的

KOSJENKA: That’s very normal, and it’s also very common in clarification that sometimes you need to clarify with another family member before you can continue working with the first one. Where stands grandmother in relation to mother, Anna?

就在我面前

科斯坚卡：母亲自发地想对她的母亲，也就是你的外婆说些什么？

ANNA: I’m sick and I cannot work, I’m not able to work, I’m sick.

科斯坚卡：你能给我们讲讲来龙去脉吗？母亲生病了，外婆在她很小的时候就强迫她工作？

ANNA: I don’t know about my mother’s childhood, but when she was a young woman she got pregnant and the child died, and in some complications she got some heart muscle inflammation and she has had heart problems since then. As they were living in a village, the parents expected their children to help them with work. My mother couldn’t really help much because of the heart problem. When I was young, since I was 12, 14 years old, I was also sent there to help my grandparents.

KOSJENKA: What would grandmother say to mother’s words, “I’m sick, don’t make me work so much”?

安娜：她同意，她接受，但另一方面，她也说我们必须多祈祷，我们必须努力祈祷。

这对母亲来说怎么样？

ANNA: Mother feels it was too easy, she doesn’t really feel too much about that. She feels happy about it but not very happy.

KOSJENKA: I would imagine that the key problem is somewhere further in her childhood but we don’t have to know all the details right now. Anna, as mother, what would you really like from your mother? How does the mother want grandmother to love her?

安娜（扮演母亲）：我想说，她没有给我换尿布。

科斯坚卡：即使是澄清。祖母会如何回应呢？

ANNA: Grandma ran away. She’s running away from this.

KOSJENKA: Please say to grandma, “Please don’t run away, I need you.” What says grandma?

ANNA: Grandmother has stopped running, but she’s holding her head in her hand and she’s crying terribly.

KOSJENKA: Ask grandmother, “Why are you crying?”

奶奶说这是个大耻辱。

科斯坚卡：最大的耻辱是什么？

生个孩子

是意外怀孕还是什么？

ANNA: Grandma is crying and she says that she’s not going to say it to anyone.

KOSJENKA: Go back into yourself, be Anna again. Say to grandmother, “I’m sorry you suffered that shame. People can be cruel sometimes.” What says grandmother?

奶奶说，你什么都不知道，也不可能知道什么。

KOSJENKA: Say to grandma, “Ok, I don’t know anything about it and I’m sorry that people were cruel to you.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Grandma has changed, she’s curled inside herself now and she is shaped like an embryo.

也许我们得和她母亲谈谈曾祖母会怎么说？

ANNA: Great-grandmother is angry, she’s furious right now.

问问曾祖母，是什么让她如此愤怒。

ANNA: It’s about the shame her daughter is going to bring to her.

KOSJENKA: Say to great-grandmother, „People are cruel sometimes. Cruelty is the true shame.” But by now the society has changed. What would great-grandmother say about what is possible now, what wasn’t possible then?

曾祖母会释怀的，她现在可以释怀了，我能看到她周围有很多光，她说她相信我。

太美了请你的曾祖母认识到她的女儿背负着多大的痛苦。也许祖母爱上了某个人，感觉自己充满了爱，也许她希望如果自己感觉这么好，就不会出什么差错。

ANNA: No, I don’t think so because it was the time of the war, it was 1941. It’s possible that my grandma was raped but I don’t know that.

KOSJENKA: Please ask great-grandmother not to hurt her daughter on top of the hurt she’s already suffered.

曾祖母哭了

科斯坚卡：请曾祖母支持她的女儿，帮助她，爱她。

她明白，她说她在努力，她想这样做。

KOSJENKA: Is grandmother willing to accept her mother’s help?

ANNA: The grandmother is now opening from that embryo position. She doesn’t say much now but she is ready to accept.

KOSJENKA: Great. Watch grandmother accepting her mother’s support and love. Maybe she could relax, maybe she could feel better about herself, maybe she could feel better about her daughter, maybe she could learn about how to support a child even against what the world might say.

她看起来很年轻，好像只有 20 多岁，而且很漂亮。她给人的感觉很好

很好告诉她有一天她会有一个漂亮的女儿 她的女儿会需要她的爱奶奶会怎么说？

她摸了摸肚子，对我笑了笑。

KOSJENKA: Tell her that all children are chaotic sometimes, they need to make mistakes, they need to explore. Tell her that it’s important to be patient and kind, for the future of her daughter and for the future of the next generations, too.

ANNA: She is accepting it, she’s happy about it, she’s touching her belly, patting her belly, she’s wearing a polka dot dress and standing somewhere in the fields.

很好想象一下，让她看看你未来的母亲，她的孩子，请她支持她，像母亲爱女儿一样爱她。要对她好，要有耐心，要有爱心。会发生什么？

ANNA: Grandmother told her now that she’s a mature woman, and my mother stopped paying attention to her clothes, to how they look like, she’s looking at my grandma and I can see some sort of connection between them, like they see each other.

科斯坚卡：再对你奶奶说一遍，请像母亲爱孩子一样爱你的女儿。

她是这么说的，她说她爱她，没有问题。

科斯坚卡：母亲现在感觉如何？

ANNA: She looks like she’s lost.

也许她需要一些时间来适应？

也许吧

给她点时间适应一下对了，你那边有人在打呼噜吗？(注：这是一次在线培训。)

对不起我有两只英国斗牛犬

KOSJENKA: I didn’t know they could snore.

我每晚都和他们睡在一起

KOSJENKA: Lucky you, you don’t have such sensitive ears as I.

安纳：我对自己说，那些是阿尔法波，我只需要调整到阿尔法波。

KOSJENKA: That’s a good way to comfort yourself.
你母亲现在感觉如何？

ANNA: She’s straightened up, her head is high and she looks happy, content.

KOSJENKA: Great. Now imagine grandmother tells her, „Please love Anna, your daughter.”

ANNA: Mother responds, „Well, when she earns it.”

科斯坚卡：奶奶现在会怎么说？

ANNA: Grandmother says, “Just love her”.

这对母亲来说怎么样？

ANNA: Mom can see me, but she doesn’t really do much, doesn’t say anything, doesn’t make any gestures, but she’s looking at me closely.

科斯坚卡：安娜，再想象一下你的母亲。想象你身后有两代慈爱、支持你的母亲。

我感觉到了，我真的感觉到了，我甚至挺直了腰板。感觉很好，就像有东西在支撑着我

很好现在，作为母亲，看看你的女儿，仔细看看安娜。你看到了什么？

ANNA (as mother): I see a five year old. She’s very fragile.

你对你的女儿有什么感觉？

我想她需要我，我可以试着支持她。

科斯坚卡：回到安娜身边，请对你母亲说 如何 你希望她爱你吗、支持你吗？

安娜（饰演她自己）：我希望她能给我一些空间，让我创作。

如果你告诉你母亲，她会怎么反应？

安纳：她有点想这样，但另一方面她又有些害怕，怕我自己会惹上麻烦，怕我因此而出问题。

你会怎么跟她说？

这就是我的生活，我的麻烦和问题。

科斯坚卡：也许还可以告诉她，有时孩子们需要一些麻烦来从中学习。有时，经历麻烦可以帮助孩子学会处理麻烦或避免麻烦。早从小麻烦中学到东西，总比晚从更大的麻烦中学到东西要好。妈妈会怎么想？

ANNA: She feels good. Earlier she was not really clear, like there was not best resolution in that image of her, but now it feels like she’s got more pixels, the resolution is better.

很好你觉得，你母亲现在想对你说什么？

ANNA: “Ok then, go.”

想象一下，小安娜能有更多的空间，更多的自由。那会怎么样？

ANNA: It feels great, I’m jumping into a huge aquarium with coral reef, which was always my dream.

KOSJENKA: While the child is playing in the coral reef I’ll comment about a few things. Sometimes you can simply ask the client what would they like to say, or what would they like to comment about what is going on. You don’t have to guide the client all the time. Sometimes a client can feel what would be the most appropriate clarification better than you. It’s like a dance with the client, you listen to their responses, rather than trying to fit the process into some sort of frame as quickly as possible. Whatever needs to be resolved before the next step could be done, resolve it. We never push anything, we never force anything, otherwise we’ll just make the work longer and more difficult. Whatever we skip, we will have to go back to it some time or another. Anna, do you think you are ready now to say to your mother, “You are my mother”?

是的

KOSJENKA: Say to her, „You are my mother; I am your daughter. I wish we weren’t separated at a time when we needed to connect the most.” How does mother respond?

ANNA: She doesn’t say much, she doesn’t do much, but her face is softer. She is looking at me with care and love.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, “I wish we could have had a better connection, and I know you wanted that too.” What says mother?

ANNA: She confirms it and it looks like she would like to hug me but she’s a little bit afraid.

你想让她拥抱你吗？

是的

KOSJENKA: Say to mother, „Let’s try, let’s see what happens.”

ANNA: We’re taking baby steps now towards each other. Now we’re hugging.

好极了你可以尽可能慢，尽可能小心。只要给它时间，并注意它的感觉。

ANNA: … We stopped hugging and right now we are leaning on each other’s backs. Our backs are touching.

很好请你妈妈站在你的左肩后面，把她的手臂搭在你的肩膀上。

ANNA: That’s what happened, my mother did that and there was no resistance and I feel like everything is in its place, like there is an order to it.

ANNA: Great. This sounds like a good time to stop for now. Some clarification with the aunt would be a good idea next, maybe between mother and aunt, just to clarify who is mother and who is aunt, maybe mother would be angry at the aunt for taking her place. Who knows what else has happened with mother, perhaps there are some traumas to resolve, but that’s a topic for another time. This is a good demonstration, I think, to show how complex a clarification can be. This is perfectly normal, most sessions won’t be straightforward and easy. Thank you, Anna.

谢谢

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