Transkrypcja: Wyjaśnienie

Jest to fragment transkrypcji modułu 1 szkolenia Integrative Systemic Coaching. Wyjaśnienie jest jednym z pierwszych kroków naszego podejścia, stosunkowo prostym i przyjaznym dla początkujących, ale wciąż dość skutecznym.

ANNA: I felt some resistance in the last exercise. It was about the relationship between me, my mother, and her sister. When I was born, my mother was left in the hospital for the next two weeks, and I came home with my father and my aunt, my mother’s sister. For those first two weeks the aunt was my mother, she was mothering me instead of my mother. Since I can remember, since I was about five years old, I remember that my aunt was more important to me than my mother. My mother was very jealous of the relationship between me and her sister, so she was very controlling, she was even using some force, while my aunt was very supportive. During clarification, I resisted, I refused putting my mother in the place where she should be, because that place was already occupied by my aunt.

KOSJENKA: Ok, świetnie. Może moglibyśmy zrobić demo z tobą, jeśli się zgodzisz, Anno?

Clarification can be difficult to systematize and describe, because it depends so much of what your client tells you, and that could be just about anything. Let’s see what comes up with Anna and then we’ll learn more about what we can do with it. Anna, imagine to see your mother, where is she in your family map?

ANNA: She’s walking around me.

KOSJENKA: That sounds like there is some confusion about her. Sometimes when you are not quite sure where to start, or as a relatively easy introduction to clarification for a client, you could ask, „What would you like to say to this family member, that you never said or never had a chance to say?” Anna, is there something that you would spontaneously like to say to your mother that you would like your mother to know?

ANNA: Chciałabym jej powiedzieć, żeby dała mi trochę luzu, zostawiła mnie w spokoju, pozwoliła mi być.

KOSJENKA: This can also be a part of clarification. Clarification is not just about a formula, although we are working towards, let’s say, an end formula: You are my mother – I am your daughter. Especially if a relationship is difficult, let clients say whatever they want to say at first. You can think of clarification as a conversation in which everything that needs to be brought to the light is brought to the light, with the end goal of coming to an agreement of who is who in a healthy relationship. Anna, go ahead and say to your mother, “Leave me alone.”

Zostaw mnie w spokoju.

KOSJENKA: Sprawdź, jak spontanicznie zareagowałaby matka.

ANNA: She’s a bit surprised now. She doesn’t say a thing but she’s showing me her fist, she’s shaking her fist.

KOSJENKA: Może mógłbyś wyjaśnić swojej matce, co ci przeszkadzało, co było dla ciebie niepokojące w jej zachowaniu.

ANNA: Krzyczała na mnie, biła mnie, czytała moje pamiętniki, sprawdzała, jakie książki czytam, żeby je ocenzurować.

KOSJENKA: How would mother react if you’d explain this to her?

ANNA: She says that you have to keep your kids on a short leash. Otherwise they don’t have respect for anyone.

KOSJENKA: A few decades ago it was a common idea that you have to control your children quite harshly, otherwise you’d spoil them. People often don’t seem to see much between one extreme and the other. Anna, ask your mother, „Who taught you that?”

ANNA: Powiedziała, że to szkoła. Moja mama była nauczycielką.

KOSJENKA: Musiała więc zdyscyplinować dużą grupę niesfornych dzieci.

ANNA: She was also teaching me, and I remember when she would take me out of the classroom and to the teacher’s room and then would beat me with a cable.

KOSJENKA: Leaving physical abuse aside for now, please say to your mother, „You are not my teacher, you are my mother. I need you to love me like a mother loves her child, not just discipline me like a teacher disciplines a student”. How does mother respond?

ANNA: She’s like frozen.

KOSJENKA: Imagine to step into mother’s place. If that is uncomfortable, you don’t have to feel too strongly what is going on in your mother, just enough to get some information. Imagine to be your mother and to be frozen when your child asks you to love her as a mother loves her daughter. If you are the mother, why are you frozen?

ANNA: (As the mother) I cannot even see that child. My first thought, my first concern is how I look like when I’m frozen this way.

KOSJENKA: Sounds like the mother is very concerned with what people might say. That’s quite often the case when a parent is a teacher; what would people say about their children. Anna, if you are your mother, who taught you to feel all that fear of what people would say?

Widzę matkę.

KOSJENKA: Mother’s mother?

ANNA: Tak.

KOSJENKA: That’s very normal, and it’s also very common in clarification that sometimes you need to clarify with another family member before you can continue working with the first one. Where stands grandmother in relation to mother, Anna?

Przede mną.

KOSJENKA: Co matka spontanicznie chciałaby powiedzieć swojej matce, twojej babci?

ANNA: I’m sick and I cannot work, I’m not able to work, I’m sick.

KOSJENKA: Czy możesz podać nam więcej kontekstu? Matka była chora i babcia zmusiła ją do pracy, gdy była mała?

ANNA: I don’t know about my mother’s childhood, but when she was a young woman she got pregnant and the child died, and in some complications she got some heart muscle inflammation and she has had heart problems since then. As they were living in a village, the parents expected their children to help them with work. My mother couldn’t really help much because of the heart problem. When I was young, since I was 12, 14 years old, I was also sent there to help my grandparents.

KOSJENKA: What would grandmother say to mother’s words, “I’m sick, don’t make me work so much”?

ANNA: Ona to akceptuje, akceptuje to, ale z drugiej strony mówi też, że musimy się dużo modlić, musimy się mocno modlić.

KOSJENKA: Jak to się ma do matki?

ANNA: Mother feels it was too easy, she doesn’t really feel too much about that. She feels happy about it but not very happy.

KOSJENKA: I would imagine that the key problem is somewhere further in her childhood but we don’t have to know all the details right now. Anna, as mother, what would you really like from your mother? How does the mother want grandmother to love her?

ANNA (w roli matki): Chcę powiedzieć, że nie zmieniała mi pieluch.

KOSJENKA: Nawet to jest wyjaśnienie. Jak zareagowałaby na to babcia?

ANNA: Grandma ran away. She’s running away from this.

KOSJENKA: Please say to grandma, “Please don’t run away, I need you.” What says grandma?

ANNA: Grandmother has stopped running, but she’s holding her head in her hand and she’s crying terribly.

KOSJENKA: Ask grandmother, “Why are you crying?”

ANNA: Babcia mówi, że to był wielki wstyd.

KOSJENKA: Co było największym wstydem?

ANNA: Żeby mieć dziecko.

KOSJENKA: Czy to była nieplanowana ciąża, czy coś innego?

ANNA: Grandma is crying and she says that she’s not going to say it to anyone.

KOSJENKA: Go back into yourself, be Anna again. Say to grandmother, “I’m sorry you suffered that shame. People can be cruel sometimes.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Babcia mówi, że nic nie wiesz i nie możesz nic o tym wiedzieć.

KOSJENKA: Say to grandma, “Ok, I don’t know anything about it and I’m sorry that people were cruel to you.” What says grandmother?

ANNA: Grandma has changed, she’s curled inside herself now and she is shaped like an embryo.

KOSJENKA: Może powinniśmy porozmawiać z jej matką. Co prababcia powiedziałaby na tę całą sytuację?

ANNA: Great-grandmother is angry, she’s furious right now.

KOSJENKA: Zapytaj prababcię, co ją tak złości.

ANNA: It’s about the shame her daughter is going to bring to her.

KOSJENKA: Say to great-grandmother, „People are cruel sometimes. Cruelty is the true shame.” But by now the society has changed. What would great-grandmother say about what is possible now, what wasn’t possible then?

ANNA: Prababcia pozwoliłaby temu odejść, może teraz pozwolić tym emocjom odejść i widzę wokół niej dużo światła, a ona mówi, że mi wierzy.

Pięknie. Poproś prababcię, by dostrzegła, jak wielki ból nosi w sobie jej córka. Być może babcia zakochała się w kimś, czuła się przepełniona miłością i być może miała nadzieję, że skoro czuje się tak dobrze, to nic nie może pójść źle.

ANNA: No, I don’t think so because it was the time of the war, it was 1941. It’s possible that my grandma was raped but I don’t know that.

KOSJENKA: Please ask great-grandmother not to hurt her daughter on top of the hurt she’s already suffered.

Prababcia płacze.

KOSJENKA: Poproś prababcię, aby wspierała swoją córkę, pomagała jej, kochała ją.

ANNA: Ona to rozumie i mówi, że się stara, że chce.

KOSJENKA: Is grandmother willing to accept her mother’s help?

ANNA: The grandmother is now opening from that embryo position. She doesn’t say much now but she is ready to accept.

KOSJENKA: Great. Watch grandmother accepting her mother’s support and love. Maybe she could relax, maybe she could feel better about herself, maybe she could feel better about her daughter, maybe she could learn about how to support a child even against what the world might say.

ANNA: Wygląda młodo, ma około 20 lat i jest piękna. Czuje się bardzo dobrze.

Świetnie. Powiedz jej, że pewnego dnia będzie miała piękną córkę, a jej córka będzie potrzebowała jej miłości. Co powiedziałaby babcia?

ANNA: Dotknęła swojego brzucha i uśmiechnęła się do mnie.

KOSJENKA: Tell her that all children are chaotic sometimes, they need to make mistakes, they need to explore. Tell her that it’s important to be patient and kind, for the future of her daughter and for the future of the next generations, too.

ANNA: She is accepting it, she’s happy about it, she’s touching her belly, patting her belly, she’s wearing a polka dot dress and standing somewhere in the fields.

KOSJENKA: Świetnie. Wyobraź sobie, że pokazujesz jej swoją matkę w przyszłości, jej dziecko, i prosisz ją, aby ją wspierała, kochała ją tak, jak matka kocha swoją córkę. By była dla niej miła, cierpliwa, kochająca. Co się stanie?

ANNA: Grandmother told her now that she’s a mature woman, and my mother stopped paying attention to her clothes, to how they look like, she’s looking at my grandma and I can see some sort of connection between them, like they see each other.

KOSJENKA: Powiedz swojej babci jeszcze raz: Proszę, kochaj swoją córkę tak, jak matka kocha swoje dziecko.

ANNA: Ona tak mówi, mówi, że kocha ją bez problemu.

KOSJENKA: Jak to teraz wygląda dla matki?

ANNA: She looks like she’s lost.

KOSJENKA: Może potrzebuje trochę czasu, żeby się przyzwyczaić?

Prawdopodobnie.

KOSJENKA: Daj jej trochę czasu, żeby się przyzwyczaiła. Przy okazji, czy ktoś tam chrapie? (Uwaga: było to szkolenie online.)

ANNA: Przepraszam. Mam dwa buldogi angielskie.

KOSJENKA: I didn’t know they could snore.

ANNA: Śpię z nimi każdej nocy.

KOSJENKA: Lucky you, you don’t have such sensitive ears as I.

ANNA: Mówię sobie, że to są fale alfa i muszę się do nich dostroić.

KOSJENKA: That’s a good way to comfort yourself.
Jak czuje się teraz twoja matka?

ANNA: She’s straightened up, her head is high and she looks happy, content.

KOSJENKA: Great. Now imagine grandmother tells her, „Please love Anna, your daughter.”

ANNA: Mother responds, „Well, when she earns it.”

KOSJENKA: Co teraz powiedziałaby na to babcia?

ANNA: Grandmother says, “Just love her”.

KOSJENKA: Jak to się ma do matki?

ANNA: Mom can see me, but she doesn’t really do much, doesn’t say anything, doesn’t make any gestures, but she’s looking at me closely.

KOSJENKA: Anno, wyobraź sobie ponownie, że jesteś swoją matką. Wyobraź sobie, że stoją za tobą dwa pokolenia kochających i wspierających matek.

ANNA: Poczułam to, naprawdę to poczułam, nawet wyprostowałam plecy. To dobre uczucie, jakby coś mnie wspierało.

Świetnie. Teraz, jako matka, spójrz na swoją córkę, przyjrzyj się uważnie Annie. Co widzisz?

ANNA (as mother): I see a five year old. She’s very fragile.

KOSJENKA: Co czujesz do swojej córki?

ANNA: Myślę, że ona mnie potrzebuje i mogłabym spróbować ją wesprzeć.

KOSJENKA: Wracając do Anny, proszę powiedz swojej matce jak Czy chciałbyś, żeby cię kochała i wspierała?

ANNA (jako ona sama): Chciałabym, żeby dała mi trochę przestrzeni i pozwoliła mi tworzyć.

KOSJENKA: Jak zareagowałaby twoja matka, gdybyś jej to powiedział?

ANNA: Ona trochę tego chce, ale z drugiej strony odczuwa pewnego rodzaju strach, że sama mogę wpaść w kłopoty, że mogę mieć przez to problemy.

KOSJENKA: Co byś jej o tym powiedział?

ANNA: Że to jest moje życie i to będą tylko moje kłopoty i problemy.

KOSJENKA: Może również powiedzieć jej, że czasami dzieci potrzebują kłopotów, aby się z nich uczyć. Czasami doświadczanie kłopotów może pomóc dzieciom nauczyć się radzić sobie z kłopotami lub ich unikać. Lepiej uczyć się wcześnie z małych kłopotów, niż później z gorszych. Co na to matka?

ANNA: She feels good. Earlier she was not really clear, like there was not best resolution in that image of her, but now it feels like she’s got more pixels, the resolution is better.

KOSJENKA: Świetnie. Co czujesz, co twoja matka chciałaby ci teraz powiedzieć?

ANNA: “Ok then, go.”

KOSJENKA: Wyobraź sobie, że mała Anna może mieć więcej przestrzeni, więcej wolności. Jak by to było?

ANNA: It feels great, I’m jumping into a huge aquarium with coral reef, which was always my dream.

KOSJENKA: While the child is playing in the coral reef I’ll comment about a few things. Sometimes you can simply ask the client what would they like to say, or what would they like to comment about what is going on. You don’t have to guide the client all the time. Sometimes a client can feel what would be the most appropriate clarification better than you. It’s like a dance with the client, you listen to their responses, rather than trying to fit the process into some sort of frame as quickly as possible. Whatever needs to be resolved before the next step could be done, resolve it. We never push anything, we never force anything, otherwise we’ll just make the work longer and more difficult. Whatever we skip, we will have to go back to it some time or another. Anna, do you think you are ready now to say to your mother, “You are my mother”?

ANNA: Tak.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, „You are my mother; I am your daughter. I wish we weren’t separated at a time when we needed to connect the most.” How does mother respond?

ANNA: She doesn’t say much, she doesn’t do much, but her face is softer. She is looking at me with care and love.

KOSJENKA: Say to her, “I wish we could have had a better connection, and I know you wanted that too.” What says mother?

ANNA: She confirms it and it looks like she would like to hug me but she’s a little bit afraid.

KOSJENKA: Chciałbyś, żeby cię przytuliła?

ANNA: Tak.

KOSJENKA: Say to mother, „Let’s try, let’s see what happens.”

ANNA: We’re taking baby steps now towards each other. Now we’re hugging.

Świetnie. Możesz być tak powolny i ostrożny, jak chcesz. Po prostu daj sobie czas i zauważ, jakie to uczucie.

ANNA: … We stopped hugging and right now we are leaning on each other’s backs. Our backs are touching.

Świetnie. Poproś matkę, by stanęła za twoim lewym ramieniem i położyła ci rękę na ramieniu.

ANNA: That’s what happened, my mother did that and there was no resistance and I feel like everything is in its place, like there is an order to it.

ANNA: Great. This sounds like a good time to stop for now. Some clarification with the aunt would be a good idea next, maybe between mother and aunt, just to clarify who is mother and who is aunt, maybe mother would be angry at the aunt for taking her place. Who knows what else has happened with mother, perhaps there are some traumas to resolve, but that’s a topic for another time. This is a good demonstration, I think, to show how complex a clarification can be. This is perfectly normal, most sessions won’t be straightforward and easy. Thank you, Anna.

ANNA: Dziękuję.

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